Is it a symbolic step or a sign of more reforms to come? Aziza Youssef and some other activists boycotted the elections, saying that it is just a “window dressing.” Do you agree?
It is both, depending on how we look at it. However, Saudi women will make sure it is not going to be symbolic, but a starting point. Dear Aziza has a point. We discussed this issue before the elections. I told her and others that you cannot boycott when you are a minority, if you don’t have a venue to express your views. Nobody knows about this boycott, it is insignificant. It is a waste of vote, waste of voice. I don’t disagree with her on window dressing, yes, it could be the intention of the state; but we are not going to let them keep it as window dressing for their image. It is definitely a chance for us, an opportunity that we should not let slip through our hands. It was not easy to get to this point.
What did it take to reach this point? How did it become possible after all those years?
It was not easy. This is the result of a long and huge struggle since 2004. We started in 2004 when it was first announced that there would be public participation and partially elected municipal councils in the kingdom. Since then we pushed very hard to have women in. We campaigned on an individual level and official level to have women’s participation. We contacted the Ministry of Municipality, and at that time I spoke to the deputy minister. He was the head of electoral committee. I was in touch with him all the time, asking for meetings with the women across Saudi Arabia who are willing to participate in the municipal elections. He kept postponing the meetings. Besides at the official level, we also worked hard on social media, using different channels. We started creating email groups for gathering as many women as possible, passing information, and raising awareness. We had a list of activists, as well as writers and journalists, in order to create public presence. We informed the media of our steps, so the media also put pressure on the ministry.
Was there any legal obstacle that prevented women from participating in elections?
We carefully investigated the bylaws, and made sure there is nothing to prevent us from voting. Election bylaws do not say that being male is one of the conditions. We made it as a point that nothing disqualifies us from participating. We kept repeating until October 2004, when it was announced in a press conference that women would not participate. The reason they gave was: “They have the right to participate, but we are not ready. It needs logistical preparations.” We took it as a victory, we had the right but the ministry was not ready. At least they acknowledged that women have the right! Also, happily, they did not use any excuse based on religion or tradition. So we took it as a positive sign, but of course that time we did not consider it a representative election.
How about 2011 elections?
We revived the campaign for 2011 elections, under the name “Baladi” (My Country). We formed coordination groups in different cities. We expanded our influence. By the time the 2011 elections started, we were not given any specific reason, we were just not allowed. But we made it clear that women from across Saudi Arabia would go to the polls for registration, along with the media. We were prevented of course, but we just went to show that it was our right to register. Also, it was during the Arab Spring and our voice became much louder. Within a week we took the Ministry of Municipality to the court, and filed a lawsuit against the ministry. Even though it did not work out, it was still a big step. After the court case they announced again that women would not participate. Then we said we are going to have shadow municipal councils. Days before the election started, late King Abdullah (RIP) gave his famous speech, where he granted us the right to participate. We tried to postpone the elections a little bit so that we could take part, but it was too late, as the ministry had to make preparations in advance. Anyway, they said you will participate in the next round, which is 2015.
So, being able to vote basically took more than 10 years?
Yes, we have had lots of obstacles. We moved everybody into Whatsapp groups. Whatsapp was very crucial for us to spread information. We now have over 20 Whatsapp groups, and every province has a different group. The ministry gave us the final word last month saying that Whatsapp groups are not allowed for campaigning, nor SMS. Since day one we have had obstacles, and registration for the elections brought new problems. Residency proof was another huge challenge for women, which we only discovered during this election. We were encouraging as many women candidates as possible from different regions. However, in order to register you have to prove your current residence, and it was extremely problematic because mostly women do not own their houses, especially if they are divorcee, or not married. If they live in rented accommodation, it is not under their name because people do not rent a flat to a woman. They rent to their ‘male guardians’. And if it is under another name, it is not a valid proof of her residency. She has to go through another long, hard process. One hundred women withdrew due to these kind of challenges.
Around 20 women were elected to municipal councils, so what is next now?
It is a miracle to have this number of women elected. We are now trying to reach those elected women who are not part of our Baladi campaign to help them with their new duty, because they need support. We already have women members in the Shura Council, and until today those members are being harassed and slandered. But now there will be even greater challenges as the Municipal Council is bigger and requires more duties. As the Baladi, we are going to work on another initiative. It is still an idea now, as we have not announced it yet, but it is going to be about an official organisation for women, like a ministry of women. This is our next step. Now the Ministry of Social Affairs is dealing with issues related to women. We don’t have an independent body. And of course there is not even a single woman in the ministry.
Voting comes before driving?
The Baladi campaign is to promote women’s participation in the public sphere. Participation in the elections was the first step. There is another group, ‘The 26 October Campaign’, working on the driving issue. I am also part of it. We want full rights. The demand for driving is still there — we did not give up. We are not prioritising one right over another. I hate doing that. All of these rights are equally important. Having women in the public sphere is a new thing for Saudi Arabia. We have been pushed back into our homes. The society is not used to have women in the public sphere. Segregation is making it very hard to make women visible. Indeed, segregation has reached an insane level. We saw it during the elections, woman would have been fined 10, 000 Riyal if she mixed with male electors. And the Ministry of Labour had issued a new law to fine women in case they were not properly dressed. What is the proper dress, there is no mention of it. Women’s denial from the public sphere makes it easy for men to do whatever they like, it being justifiable to harass us on the street. This is why we still don’t drive, because it will put us in the public eye.
How was the local reaction to women’s participation in the elections? Saudi officials keep saying that the ‘society is not ready’. Is this a valid excuse?
I hate this sentence. This is one of the official slogans that the state uses, especially when it comes to driving. It is very denigrating and simply not true. It is the state which prevents us from driving, not society. Once a woman drives, the state sends a policeman to stop you. It is the state who stops us, not an ordinary person from society. I have my car in front of my house, I have my licence, and there is no law against me but I cannot drive! Because the minute I do, police will stop me and ask my guardian to come and pick me up. We made it very clear to the public that it is actually the state who does not let us drive, not the society. Saudi society is ready.
It was the late King Abdullah who granted the right to vote. Is (The Custodian of the Two Holy Mosques) King Salman on the same path?
King Salman is the one who carried out King Abdullah’s order. He could have cancelled it but he did not. We were not very sure in the beginning, but King Salman turned out to be very positive, in favour of women. We are happy that he has followed King Abdullah’s footsteps, making women’s participation in the elections come about.
You are teaching about women in Islam. Are there examples of women who were part of the decision making process in the history of Islam?
If you look at the history of Islam, there are women who ruled. If we look at the wives of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH), they were part of every decision that the Prophet takes. The famous story of his wife, Umm Salamah, while she was having her hair combed by her maid. She asked her maid to stop, because the Prophet called “O People”, as he had something to say. The maid said “why are you leaving, he is calling the people”, and Umm Salama’s answer was “I am one of the people!” This sentence is a strong sign of early women’s awareness of themselves and their positions in Islam. Umm Salama was the one who advised the Prophet in the Hudaibiya Truce. Her advice made it safe for him. Another example is Aisha, the Prophet’s wife, who led an army. She led an opposition because she was against the caliph’s decision not to take revenge on those who assassinated the Caliph Uthman. She took a strong stance. You have other women who led their states. Arwa Al Sulayhi, the Queen of Yemen is a very strong example. She ruled over 20 years alone. There were also queens in Indonesia, Malaysia, and Egypt. Take Shifa Bint Abdullah al Adawiyah as another example. She was given a task by Omar bin Al Khattab to take care of the market. She was the market controller. So, women were active participants. There is nothing in Islam to prevent women from public participation.
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